I'm used to having intermediate hop information, so if it's not there, I'm left with less information than normal. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Pinging the final hop only is useful when a software or hardware routing system isn't able to send the full route information correctly, but if it *is* working correctly, then it's better to do that.

If you're seeing packet loss only show up at the final destination, then tracing from that final destination back to the original site can be quite useful.

And yes - going outside the tunnel is a good thing to do - going to an outside site. If you can get the packet loss to show up near the beginning of the route, it's usually helpful. Go to the site where the packet loss is showing up, trace out, and see if you can duplicate the packet loss. If so, then start messing with devices (try going around the firewall, for example) until the problem stops. If the problem shows up inside your ISP (rather than your own equipment), then you can contact your ISP for help. If you can't route around the hardware firewall, then you should probably get in touch with the firewall vendor for help.

- Pete