Erratic Netflix Performance

Posted by: i_am_jim

Erratic Netflix Performance - 02/10/14 02:41 PM

A couple of year ago when I first subscribed to Netflix I got excellent streaming. But for about a year now performance is erratic. Sometimes it takes a while for a movie to start, then it occasionally stops to catch up. Netflix says something like "the speed on your end is inconsistent, so it's your problem."

My Comcast speed is pretty consistently 55-56 Mbps. I'm in Houston and I use a server in Dallas for speed testing. I don't know exactly what the correct Netflix server address is but I'll show the results from a couple:







I don't understand much about this area but it looks like these plots indicate problems. Any help will be appreciated.
Posted by: Gary

Re: Erratic Netflix Performance - 02/11/14 02:16 PM

Hey Jim,

Based on the information you've provided here - I don't necessarily see any issues. The "Destination Address Unreachable" message you're getting is normal for both Amazon and Netflix addresses (unless you use TCP packet types, which isn't possible with the Freeware version). We have an article that goes over this, which you can find here:

http://www.nessoft.com/kb/8

The packet loss you're seeing in the intermediate hops isn't anything to be concerned about either - it just means those routers may be set to down-prioritize (or even block) ICMP echo requests. You can see a bit more info on this topic here:

http://www.nessoft.com/kb/24

A big advantage of PingPlotter Standard (or Pro) vs Freeware is the ability to capture data over time (allowing you to compare good and bad periods). From what we can see, your screenshot looks to be from a good period - and we'd need to see a bad period in order to come up with a theory beyond "Everything looks to be fine."

Gathering data over time (like, for instance, when you're watching a movie), will allow you to capture both the good and bad periods. and then you can go back and zoom in on the appropriate period to review what happened (instead of having to jump up to look at PingPlotter each time your movie starts buffering). For the absolute best troubleshooting results here, you really need PingPlotter Standard. The Freeware version is like having one good hand, while PingPlotter Standard is like having two good hands.

Additionally, Amazon Web Services (AWS) is pretty reliable. Most chronic reoccurring problems (more than 90%) happen closer to home - like in hop 1, 2, or 3 in your case. If you do decide to keep tracing with the Freeware version - I'd recommend watching for problems there. You can also increase your "Samples to include" to look back and see if you can find any packet loss or latency problems at a hop closer to home. If you can identify something like this, then you can focus your attention on that problem.

Hopefully this helps out a bit - please let us know if you have any questions!

-Gary

Posted by: i_am_jim

Re: Erratic Netflix Performance - 02/14/14 11:27 AM

Thanks.

I know the name for one of those destination is amazon but if you put the IP in a browser you will see it's really Netflix.
Posted by: i_am_jim

Re: Erratic Netflix Performance - 02/19/14 01:15 AM

Okay, I've collected more data.

I am posting three things:
o Link to the video referred to below, on YouTube
o The PingPlotter graph made while recording the video
o A screen capture of a speed test immediately after recording video

In the video you will see the kind of performance I get on Netflix. You can also note I get 3 dots quality not 4, in the screen capture you can see my download speed is very good. I think this suggests the problem is not on by end as Netflix keeps insisting. In addition to this abominable performance after starting a movie it stops periodically to do some catch-up Forgive me for the exceedingly poor quality of my video but I'm and old man with serious tremor.

Though the Target Name says Amazon it's not -- it's Netflix. You can verify that by putting the IP in your browser and going there.

It's my hope this will give you enough information to figure out what's wrong.

The video is Here :

Posted by: Gary

Re: Erratic Netflix Performance - 02/19/14 11:17 AM

Hey Jim,

Pesky, intermittent, and erratic connectivity problems such as this can be especially frustrating.

Is the device that you're using to watch Netflix here wireless by any chance? If so - have you tried moving it to a wired connection to see if there's any improvement in performance?

This is a situation where having PingPlotter Standard instead of the Freeware version would come in especially handy. Based off of the information you've sent over, it's still pretty tough to get a good look at what may be causing the issue here. PingPlotter Standard does come with a 30 day evaluation at no cost (http://www.pingplotter.com/download.html)- so you could take advantage of this to continue troubleshooting your problem.

If you do decide to utilize the free evaluation of PingPlotter Standard - try and do some more long-term monitoring (let PingPlotter run continuously while you're using Netflix), and then send us over the .PP2 file so we can take a look at things from there. For more details on what info helps us the most in trying to assist on these kinds of issues - have a look here:

http://www.nessoft.com/kb/96

Hopefully this helps get things headed in the right direction. If you have any questions, please let us know!

-Gary
Posted by: i_am_jim

Re: Erratic Netflix Performance - 02/20/14 01:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Gary

Is the device that you're using to watch Netflix here wireless by any chance?


Yes. It's a Roku. It's not practical to run a wire to its location
Posted by: Gary

Re: Erratic Netflix Performance - 02/20/14 11:52 AM

Hey Jim,

Would it be possible for you to run a trace directly to the Roku itself? You can usually find the IP address of the Roku by going to "Settings" -> "About" or "Player Info."

Please let us know what you find!

-Gary
Posted by: i_am_jim

Re: Erratic Netflix Performance - 02/21/14 07:56 AM

This is the Roku

The first is 60 samples, 150 seconds, taken at of 2.5 second intervals


The second is 480 samples, 20 minutes, taken at of 2.5 second intervals

The third is 960 samples, 40 minutes, taken at of 2.5 second intervals

The fourth is 1440 samples, 1 hour, taken at of 2.5 second intervals

Posted by: Gary

Re: Erratic Netflix Performance - 02/21/14 05:36 PM

Hey Jim,

A few things here:

When tracing to your Roku, you want to make sure that it's during a period that you're using the Roku to watch Netflix. The goal is to catch any issues as they happen - so you can see what patterns develop when issues arise (which can help out tremendously in your troubleshooting process).

The information you've submitted thus far doesn't explicitly point to any sort of obvious problem. This may be because it's a Roku-only problem (rather than your computer's problem).

This is a scenario where the timeline graphs from PingPlotter Standard (or Pro) really shine. The erratic / occasional nature of your problem makes the timeline graph a necessity for continued review of this problem. It's not a valuable use of our time (yours or mine), to attempt to troubleshoot without them.

Our "Common Network Problems" article demonstrates just how important the timeline graphs are in diagnosing and troubleshooting network issues. Have a look here:

http://www.pingplotter.com/commonnetworkproblems

The Roadmap to Network Nirvana also may prove beneficial at this stage in your troubleshooting process:

http://www.pingplotter.com/netnirvana

The information you've provided so far has been enough to make me curious about your problem, so I've asked for more information to clarify. I've also offered some advice based on my experience (via looking at thousands of PingPlotter graphs and looking at thousands of network problems). That's all I'm doing, though - exploring the problem with you - so if you don't want to follow this advice, that's fine too. Sometimes the best way to isolate problems like this is to get advice and then apply it to your situation, which is why I've been giving you ideas on how to isolate the possible problems.

Hopefully this helps get you pointed in the right direction!

-Gary
Posted by: i_am_jim

Re: Erratic Netflix Performance - 02/21/14 11:51 PM

I'm very grateful for your help. This problem has been going on for about a year, but it's getting worse.
Posted by: i_am_jim

Re: Erratic Netflix Performance - 02/22/14 11:46 PM

Here are two files. One is 30 minutes of Roku while watching. The delays during this sample period were greater than that in the video I uploaded previously. While watching, the stopping in the middle of the video the progress bar would stop in the middle of the catchup download for as long as 15 seconds.

The other is about 3 hours of trying to reach the Netflix site.
Posted by: Gary

Re: Erratic Netflix Performance - 02/24/14 12:53 PM

Hey Jim,

Thank you for the additional details - this helps out quite a bit.

If you were experiencing buffering during the period that these results were taken from - I think we can pretty much rule out anything in your network being the cause of this issue at this point. Both traces you've submitted here look good, and neither show indication of any problems. The packet loss you're seeing in your trace to Netflix isn't anything that would cause you trouble here - the "Destination Unreachable" message you're getting there is a result of the last hop not responding to ICMP echo requests (something we discuss more in depth here - http://www.nessoft.com/kb/8). The hop right before it (#19), looks great.

That being said, this is something you'd now probably need to get in touch with your ISP, or Netflix (or both) about. The issue doesn't appear to be anything on your end - so it's something that they would need to investigate further. If you provide them the same data that you've provided here for us, it should allow them to start troubleshooting and begin narrowing down what could be causing this.

If you're looking for some best practices to employ when contacting them - please keep our Network Nirvana guide in mind (http://www.pingplotter.com/netnirvana) - as it goes over some of the best methods for making the process of navigating a customer service structure a bit faster, and more efficient.

Best wishes,

-Gary
Posted by: i_am_jim

Re: Erratic Netflix Performance - 02/24/14 05:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Gary
If you provide them the same data that you've provided here for us, it should allow them to start troubleshooting and begin narrowing down what could be causing this.

Thanks very much.

I think you have more confidence in Comcast than I do. But, aren't the *.pp2 files unique to PingPlotter? If so, I feel sure they won't be receptive to me asking them to learn a program to understand this problem.
Posted by: Gary

Re: Erratic Netflix Performance - 02/24/14 06:38 PM

Hey Jim,

Yes, the .pp2 files are unique to PingPlotter - however, an image will often suffice in these scenarios (and I'm sure the folks over at Comcast have seen more than a few examples of PingPlotter results by now). You'll find a few screenshots from your results attached to this message - which you're free to use when communicating this issue to your provider.

Something to remember as you prepare to reach out to Comcast - in addition to the screenshots/PingPlotter data; it's always a good practice to have a clear description of your issue ready, and be ready to communicate the impact this problem has been having on you. We have some more tips/tricks that can really help make this point in your process a bit easier (as well as faster and more productive) in our Roadmap to Network Nirvana (http://www.pingplotter.com/netnirvana).

Hopefully this has helped out!

-Gary
Posted by: i_am_jim

Re: Erratic Netflix Performance - 02/28/14 09:54 PM

I sent Comcast the two plots from your previous message, plus the screen capture of my speed test and a link to the video of the Roku/Netflix performance I sent you earlier.

A Comcast technical person called to say they were sending out a service technician because from his end it looked like there was a signal problem. I said the data I sent him indicated there was not a signal problem. He said "We don't use data from an outside party, only our own."

The service tech arrived today and said there was nothing wrong with the Comcast equipment, the problem must be with Netflix. Actually he said there was no problem at all, then said it was a Netflix problem. So, the non-problem is somebody else's. I explained to him I now have Netflix pointing at them and them pointing back at Netflix.

Later I spoke again with the Comcast technical person who had said they ignore all information except their own. He said since their signal and their modem were within specifications that's the only thing Comcast is responsible for. When I asked, "Doesn't Comcast have switching stations and don't they process signals at a higher level," he would not address these questions.

In summary, Comcast refuses to do anything. This is a consistent pattern. They always either deny there's a problem or point the finger at someone else (In this case they did both). For two years we had routine brief dropouts. They caused issues like our VOIP phone disconnecting suddenly or me hearing the other person but them not hearing me. These happened at the rate of a hundred to a thousand a day. Comcast refused to acknowledge there was a problem. After MANY calls to Comcast, in desperation I finally sent a letter to my councilman which she forwarded to Comcast. After that they sent a knowledgeable technician who isolated the problem to the box at the end of our street which services many houses.

Within the last six months we've replaced the TV DVR 5 times. I'd been swapping them myself. After the fourth replacement I called for them to send someone. The service tech came, said the problem was caused by my entertainment system and left. I bypassed my equipment and the problems continued. I had to wait a week. They promised not to send the same tech. The same guy showed up. When I demonstrated it couldn't be my equipment he installed a fifth DVR which has greatly improved the situation, though we still get audio dropouts.

So when you suggested I had to contact Comcast my heart sank. I'm not sure whether they're service people are incompetent in general or Comcast doesn't want to spend what it takes to make their equipment work properly or it's such a ponderous bureaucracy they're unable to get anything done or a combination of these. But, they're an exceptionally frustrating, non functional company, and given the amount of money I pay them it borders on criminal.

Posted by: Gary

Re: Erratic Netflix Performance - 03/05/14 11:51 AM

Hey Jim,

Sorry to hear your experience with Comcast didn't prove successful.

To be honest; at this point, it's a very tough call on how to proceed. As we've discussed earlier in this thread - the PingPlotter results you've had thus far don't point to any sort of clear problem, and aren't correlated to the performance issues you've been encountering. This may be why Comcast is hesitant to accept any data other than their own. Something to note here as well: when providing PingPlotter data to an ISP, it can prove helpful to explain that it is traceroute/ping test data (albeit, presented in a different fashion than they may be used to).

A word of advice - you need to be *very* clear, and pointed when bringing these issues up to Comcast. At times, we've had a bit of trouble understanding what may have been happening here as well - and information that may have proved useful early on wasn't provided until much later (for example - the fact that a technician came out and isolated the problem to the box at the end of your street. Did anything ever come of this, or did Comcast advise on what action they would be taking to resolve it?)

Keeping your point short, clear, and easy to understand can greatly improve your chances of a resolution. In our experience, it's helpful to boil everything down to a short "summary" that contains all of the most pertinent information, which would typically include:

-A clear description of what problem you're encountering
-The problem's impact to you
-Objective data that supports, and specifically points toward the problem
-Any information from previous correspondence attempts (details on technicians that have visited, what they have advised, actions taken, etc).
-What you would accept as a resolution

It's very easy to go overboard with details (we're guilty of this from time to time here) - but you have to exercise caution, and keep your explanation concise. Try and avoid sending anything that will not specifically help your case, as it can potentially invalidate any other evidence you've provided. For instance, the video of the issue you're encountering with Netflix buffering doesn't specifically point to any problems - and to someone viewing it, it could be viewed as a normal, and expected occurrence. It's also helpful to let your ISP know what you would accept as a resolution - so they know what your goal in contacting them is, and can work toward achieving it with you.

Hopefully some of the information we've provided here has helped out - and hopefully you reach a resolution soon!

-Gary